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01/28/2012

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Mark Spahn

On "Christians would be a protected group", as you probably know, "protected group" is a euphemism for the more explicit term "dhimmis".
On college tuition, there is the general economic principle that any subsidy allows the seller to charge a price higher than it could get without the subsidy.

Steve Burri

In regard to a refinery being built in North Dakota I would guess three factors: Environmentalist opposition, weather, and lack of ocean port.

J. Reed Anderson

I've inquired, Steve, and have been consistently given answers #1 and #3. However, #3 is a bit lame, considering the refineries not anywhere near oceans, such as the ones in Joliet, Ill., outside St. Paul, Mn., Bakersfield, Ca. I think the answers are #1 and #4--which is the money involved fighting #1 that would double or treble the cost of building a refinery in NoDak. A refinery in NoDak would seem to make sense without Canada's sand tars, seeing as how all that oil's coming out from under the Williston Basin now.

John Pepple

I was going to mention the refinery outside of St. Paul, but J. Reed beat me to it.

deadcenter

Environmental is the only reason I can see. I work in the environmental field, the facility I helped permit under RCRA required 5 years and our air emissions permit required about 4, and we're relatively remote and non-controversial. A refinery in proposed to be built in SW Arizona required 7-9 years for the air permit and, I've heard runs 900 pages.

A pipeline, due to its relatively small footprint even though it's 1,700 miles long and lack of air emissions, would be easier to permit especially if it is built within existing pipeline footprints wherever feasible.

John Pepple

deadcenter, thanks for the info. This just reinforces my belief that we need blue-collar impact statements from environmentalists before they do any of their stuff. How their policies affect the poor needs to be taken into account, too.

foxmarks

There are actually two refineries in suburban St. Paul.

You forget that even with a refinery in NoDak, the refined product still has to get to market. We would need something like Keystone anyway.

It is somewhat difficult to reverse the flow in a pipeline. We have just reversed the Seaway pipeline at the Cushing, OK, hub (to get more crude to coastal refineries). The coastal refineries almost certainly have outgoing distribution pipelines in place.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/enbridge-buys-into-pipeline-to-reverse-flow-2011-11-16

John Pepple

I'm certainly learning a lot from my readers. Thanks, foxmarks, I knew about the Pine Bend refinery, but I didn't know about the other one.

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